Item 21. Grex Board of Directors Meeting: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 Anne Perry (mooncat) Tue, Sep 23, 2003 (22:12). 120 lines, 36 responses. Attending: Board Members: Aruba, Other, Gelinas, Mary, Mooncat, MDW (7:50 pm) Non-Board Member attendee- Lhbunkie 1. Opening Gavel: 7:10 pm 2. Treasurer s Report: Paid the insurance premium- $525. (3 years ago $300, 2 years ago 375, 1 year ago $475) Brief discussion about our insurance company; the problem is finding an insurance carrier who will cover us- they don t seem to know how to categorize us. In August: Spent: $1, 018.83 (in large part due to the insurance bill) Took in: 369.47 So far in September: Spent: 420.53 Took in: 214.24 The balance of our accounts is dipping below $4,000 for the first time in a long time. Members- 80 members, 77 currently paid up. A special thank you to Janc for filling in as Treasurer while Mark was out of town in August. 3. Auction Update: Joe donated an extra $10.24 to the auction. Previously Gelinas purchased a vinyl to CD conversion, it went so well he requested an 8-track to CD- Charcat went ahead and did so asking only that Gelinas make another donation to Grex. So thank you to both of you. Also at this point there are a few auction items that have been paid for and not delivered- mostly a problem with buyers and sellers finding a time to meet up. The question now is- do we want to have another auction. This one didn t seem to draw a whole lot of attention- maybe rethink the idea. 4. Staff Report- Staff met last night at Jan and Valerie s- attending, Janc, Valerie, Steve Weiss, John Remmers, Joe Gelinas and Marcus Watts. Talked about Next Grex- no one has really done anything lately. After documentation of current status someone (probably Jan) will migrate to a newer version of the OS. Also discussed Co-Lo and the consensus is that we would need a rack. 5. Next Grex- Why hasn t there been more progress? Kip was going to work with MDW so Cross-could write some programming for mail. Cross has made progress with a password hash on Next Grex, and it is working. Some of the old problems remain- staff members are still swamped and life happens. One of the main items is to document current mail and to figure out what we need mail to accomplish- to get this done we need some of MDW s time. Need to keep some sort of momentum going- to jettison projects that can get done while waiting for time availability on other aspects. The staff meeting didn t discuss next steps at their meeting last night. Currently there is a three-week backlog in staff mail, SRW will be unavailable again this week, other staffers will have to step up and act on some of the mail. 6. Dial in Lines: Currently we have 7 lines, including one staff only line (that is not included in the trunk hunt). There was a question from the board on whether or not that staff line ever actually got used for the purpose it was designed for? Gelinas was under the impression that it probably wasn t. Gelinas and Other spoke in favor of dropping to 4 public lines, and perhaps dropping the staff line. That would mean we would only have 4 lines in total. Also in favor of dropping Centrex. (MDW arrived at this point) MDW thought that staffers actually did use the staff only line and that it would not be a good idea to drop it, especially without further discussion with Staff on the matter. Gelinas moved: we drop Centrex. Aruba (or Other, your humble secretary didn t see who spoke and couldn t tell by voice) Seconded. In Favor: 6, Against: 0, Abstained: 0 Mary moved: we drop to 4 public dial in lines. Other seconded. In Favor: 6, Against: 0, Abstained: 0 Gelinas moved: we drop the staff line. Mary seconded. MDW- spoke up against voting at this time, stating that we need more discussion. Vote commenced. In Favor: 5 (Aruba, Mary, Other, Mooncat, Gelinas), Against 1 (MDW), Abstained: 0 7. Patriot Act: Mary would like to contact the ACLU for a referral as to whom we could contact should we need it. Other was of the opinion that it would be okay to speak with Michael Steinberg (who worked with Grex in Cyberspace, et al s. Engler) to see what he would recommend we do if something came to Grex- then keep in mind the source and act accordingly. The Board was in general agreement that the responsible action on their part would be to gather as much information ahead of time, and to speak with the ACLU and get what advice they can give us so that we are prepared for the eventuality that something could come to Grex due to the Patriot Act. MDW was of the opinion that even on the remote chance that the government does want to look at the mail all they would have to do is go to our ultimate ISP and plug into it to get all the mail that passes through. Other volunteers to contact the ACLU for a referral that we can call upon should we need to. 9. New Business: 8. Schedule Next Meeting: Tuesday October 21st, 7:00 pm Zingerman s Next Door in the Kid s Room. 10. Closing Gavel: 8:13 pm. 36 responses total. ---------- (21) #1 Eric R Bassey (other) Tue, Sep 23, 2003 (22:45). 2 lines. I sent mail off to Michael Steinberg referring him to the item in Co-op about the Patriot Act, and asking for a referral. ---------- (21) #2 Eric R Bassey (other) Tue, Sep 23, 2003 (22:46). 2 lines. Thanks, Anne (mooncat), for so promptly posting the minutes of tonight's meeting! ---------- (21) #3 Steve Whipple (charcat) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (00:29). 4 lines. I hope the auction continues, I have participated in the last 2 auctions and had much fun following it. I realize some things with it go wrong, but my experience has been good. It's all about donations anyway =^0.-^= ---------- (21) #4 Mary Remmers (mary) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (07:58). 13 lines. Wow, how speedy, Anne. Thanks! One correction - under colo, last sentence, I think what came out of the staff meeting wasn't that we'd need a rack but that we'd need half a rack. That's a lot of space. My reasoning on voting to drop the staff line is I sense this is how staff would vote. If staff comes back to say that the vote was a mistake we still have some time to re-evaluate before anything happens. But we must take steps to cut our expenditures and this amounts to $240 per year. In fact, if staff does see this private line as necessary I'd suggest we go to 3 dialin lines to keep us at 4 total. My opinion, of course. ---------- (21) #5 Mark A Conger (aruba) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (09:38). 1 line. Thanks for the speedy minutes, Anne! ---------- (21) #6 C. S. McGee (cmcgee) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (11:43). 4 lines. I'll do more to help in the next auction. The timing on this one was bad. I have volunteered to go to local businesses and try to get gift certificates or donations of cool stuff. Anyone who knows someone I could hit up, let me know. ---------- (21) #7 Dan Cross (cross) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (19:30). 5 lines. I think staff hasn't made much progress on nextgrex solely due to time constraints. One thing that might help would be coming up with something like a project plan; let's identify goals, and then come up with plans to meet those goals. ---------- (21) #8 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (19:35). 2 lines. ---------- (21) #9 Perverted old Vlad. (dah) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (19:38). 1 line. I would've never expected you to be so modest. ---------- (21) #10 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (19:41). 2 lines. I'll volunteer again to work on nextgrex. Other than trex and styles, nobody knows more about running a BBS on BSD. ---------- (21) #11 S M (mynxcat) Wed, Sep 24, 2003 (23:01). 1 line. You actually admit that trex knows more than you, Jamie? I'm in shock ---------- (21) #12 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (08:12). 2 lines. I'm being generous for the sack of humility. I actually do not think that. But I am pretty confident that styles could take me. ---------- (21) #13 S M (mynxcat) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (10:38). 3 lines. And I thought you'd had a change of heart :P Is the sack of humility anything like the bakset of generosity? ---------- (21) #14 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (13:01). 2 lines. I look forward to the auction. I hope it can be continued. It might be a good idea to give it a limited time period, though. ---------- (21) #15 Jim Daloonik (asddsa) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (15:39). 5 lines. re 11 Is that what response #8 said? re 0 I dunno about your system of counting, but I've always seen 8 come before nine, and not the other way around. Unless there were some kind of time warp in Ann Arbour on that night and 9 came before 8 ---------- (21) #16 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (17:35). 3 lines. (The minutes are in the order the items were taken up; the numbers are in the order the items appeared on the agenda. #9 was taken up out of order, before #8. These things happen. ;) ---------- (21) #17 Anne Perry (mooncat) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (17:49). 3 lines. re #15- yes, please see what #16 said. Oftentimes in board meetings agenda items are not discussed in order- so I list the item number the conversation corresponds to and go from there. ---------- (21) #18 Mary Remmers (mary) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (19:19). 5 lines. It turns out Zing's didn't have reserved space available for us for the date posted in the minutes, so we've rescheduled the next board meeting for Monday, October 27th, 7:00 pm, in the kid's room. ---------- (21) #19 Sindi Keesan (keesan) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (22:37). 4 lines. Jep, please come by with the broken monitor and printer any time in the next 10 days and Jim will look at them. Jep and aruba are two people who have paid for Jim's time but not collected it. This would be a good time to collect his time as we are not working on the house for a while. ---------- (21) #20 Jim Daloonik (asddsa) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (23:12). 1 line. re 16 & 17 Thank you for that clear explanation. ---------- (21) #21 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Thu, Sep 25, 2003 (23:33). 1 line. Thanks, Sindi! ---------- (21) #22 Richard J. Wallner (richard) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (02:18). 7 lines. three years ago the insurance premium was $300 and now it is $525 and going up? It sure seems like this insurance company is taking grex to the cleaners. Any more increaes and Grex will be paying double what it did three years ago. Surely there are other alternatives. There must be an insurance company that will understand waht Grex is and give it a flat rate and not raise it every year. Does this insurace company think grex is a for profit operatioa nd can afford all these increases?! ---------- (21) #23 Mary Remmers (mary) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (06:32). 9 lines. The know exactly what we're about. We are paying more because interest rates have tanked, stocks are down, and insurance companies have had to pay out a whole lot for weather-related claims in the past five or so years. Do you know of someone who got a new roof because of hail? I expect our costs will continue to rise and we'll be shocked each and every time it does. ---------- (21) #24 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (07:23). 5 lines. (Inusrance companies are not charities, nor are they non-profit enterprises. Their rates are set to insure that they collect enough money to pay claims AND make money for the owners. The premiums are invested so that both needs can be met; paying current claims from current (or new) premiums gets them into them into trouble, y'know.) ---------- (21) #25 Glenda F. Andre (glenda) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (07:56). 6 lines. I recently received a letter from my insurance company that rates were going to be going up 40%-65% across the board for house insurance. Due to some new legislation or some such. I asked my agent if it was just this particular company or all. She said all. Expect them to really go up next year. ---------- (21) #26 Tao Xiao Sa (jp2) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (08:27). 2 lines. 13: Almost. Except I've got a Grex membership for anyone on either M-Net or Grex who has more lines of code in OpenBSD's base OS than I have. ---------- (21) #27 John Ellis Perry Jr. (jep) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (11:05). 3 lines. I don't regard the insurance companies as likely to be fleecing Grex, specifically. No one is getting rich by increasing our premiums from $300 to $525 per year. ---------- (21) #28 Eric R Bassey (other) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (11:28). 2 lines. True. The increase is merely a reflection of the sad state of the industry and the national economy. ---------- (21) #29 S M (mynxcat) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (11:39). 1 line. Re 26. Yeah, I'm really falling over myself trying to win that contest :P ---------- (21) #30 David Brodbeck (gull) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (12:01). 4 lines. Essentially the insurance companies are in a "can't lose" situation. They play the market with our premiums. If the market goes up, they pocket the profits. If the market goes down, they raise premiums to cover their losses. ---------- (21) #31 Eric R Bassey (other) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (20:03). 9 lines. That applies to the industry as a whole, but theoretically, individual companies can still lose if they don't remain competitive with other companies in the industry. What's missing in the scenario with which we are faced is the kind of competition between companies which assures that consumers like us can still get the essential insurance we need. It is very difficult in this environment to accept that there is no (illegal) collusion in the provider side of the market. ---------- (21) #32 Richard J. Wallner (richard) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (22:59). 2 lines. what would be the consequences if grex just dropped its insurance coverage altogether? ---------- (21) #33 Eric R Bassey (other) Fri, Sep 26, 2003 (23:43). 6 lines. We'd be in violation of the terms of our lease. We'd probably be liable for breach of contract, and would very likely be given a deadline by which to either provide proof of insurance or get out of the Pumpkin. That is, assuming the landlord found out. Of course, doing it and just hoping the landlord didn't find out would be criminally stupid. ---------- (21) #34 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Sat, Sep 27, 2003 (00:59). 2 lines. (Whether the landlord found out, we would still be in violation of the terms of our lease.) ---------- (21) #35 Richard J. Wallner (richard) Sat, Sep 27, 2003 (21:23). 3 lines. so are you saying that an advantage of future co-location would possibly be not having a lease requiring grex to carry insurance? thats a pretty strong argument for moving if true ---------- (21) #36 Joseph L Gelinas (gelinas) Sat, Sep 27, 2003 (22:11). 2 lines. So far, it's been true: none of the co-location providers we've talked to have required us to have insurance to protect their premises.