Item 92. Cyberspace Communications April meeting Misti Tucker (mta) Sun, Apr 27, 1997 (19:18). 108 lines, 38 responses. Cyberspace Communications Board of Directors Meeting April 23, 1997 Attendees: Scott H. (scott); Mark C. (aruba); Dan G. (dang); Steve G. (scg) Valerie M. (valerie); Dave C. (dpc); Jan W. (janc); Drew (drew); Jared (jared?); 3000 Gavel: 7:40 pm 3411 Welcome New Board Member: Dan G. (dang) Dan will complete the term started by Rob henderson. 3451: Treasurer's Report GREX did ok in March, bringing in $923 to come out $227 ahead. Two new members joined: Jared and Cyclone. April does't look nearly as good. We've brought in $36 so far. Three peoiple have said that they aren't renewing their memberships because of the decision to open the conferences to unregistered reading over the web. Re: mark Conger signed the forms to renew our dba GREX. Mark also brought the forms that allowed the Boards current officers and Janc to sign checks for GREX and also allows GREX to recieves checks made out to GREX rather than Cyberspace communications. The forms were signed at the meeting and mark will bring them back to the bank. 3554: Computer Rehab Committee The board discussed changing the focus of the committee a bit to allow older computers to go to former grexers who find themselves in need of a GREX terminal and to would-be grexers who have the same need. Any donations of computers capable of running reasonably modern software would still go to the origianl cause. One old (8086) computer has been claimed under the new rules. The Rehab committee has a new volunteer and welcomes login eeyore! The Rehab committe has also announced that it's in need of a new leader. 3596: The Publicity Committee The folks running the GREX benefit have announced that because Patty Smith is a friend of the owners of the Gallery where the benefit was to be held, GREX has been bumped to the Friday and Saturday of Mothers Day weekend. 2517 Technical Committee GREX has been suffering a rash of finger bombings. Re: modems -- we need more modem cables. The modems Klaus Wolter has repaired are nor in serice. We need two more phone jacks. The GVCS modem that has been set up on a separate line 9not in the trunk hunt) has been stable and the staff is ready to add it to the trunk hunt. New shelves have been installed in the pumkin making it a much tidier and more pleasant place. Thanks, Scott! Re: The Terminal Server stuff -- it's still on hold pending staff time. RE; mail -- Puck.nether.net had been made the DNS mx for GREX last month, but it's been removed due to some bizarre problems. Re: the 670 -- the root disk has now been installed on the 670. It needs patches and binaries loaded and needs to be partitioned next. Staff announced that at the next staff meeting, they plan to discuss formalizing the usage guidelines for root. Dave cahill requested that we announce a date on which a "New GREX" would be unveiled. The staff and board decided that they didn't think a target date was a good idea since we've made and broken them so often in the past. Staff will persevere and get the new 670 ready as quickly as possible and will create a list of requirements and keep it updated with news of accomplishments and new requirements as they come up. This may fit best in the Garage conference. The ISDN feed is still on hold. No progress, no news. 5041 The Wizard in Training gres handbooks The board of Cyberspace Communications authorizes the treasurer to send a copy of the Wizard in Training handbook to each new member who joins with an initial contribution of $18 or more and on request to any member renewing for a contribution of at least $18, up to a total of one free copy per member." Mark Conger motioned; Dan G. seconds. Passed 7-0-0 5159 The GREX Store The GREX Store web page is now open at http://cyberspace.org/grexstore.html So far the store has two items for sale: the mouse pad and the mug containing the new GREX logo. Jan will be making changes regularly for a while. 8084 Benefit Concert Postponed: see the publicity report. 8246 New Business 9671 Closing Gavel 8:40 pm 38 responses total. ---------- (92) #1 Valerie Mates (valerie) Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (07:21). 20 lines. Thanks for posting the minutes Misti. Here's something that arrived in my mailbox today. This is part of what seems to be an e-mailed M-Net newsletter from the M-Net sysadmins. It was sent to lots of people. It's relevant to the discussion of Grex handbooks that took place at this meeting. (For anybody who is skimming: note that >>this is about M-NET<< and not Grex.) > > Board Policy: > > The Board of Directors voted to permanently reduce the > cost of an M-Net Patronships to $10 per month, or $100 > per year. With a 3-month Patronship or a 6-month > Membership each user is entitled to a Free copy of the > Arbornet 81-page Manual. The manual includes basic Unix > information, as well as guidelines and tips for using > party, bbs, lynx, etc. Limit of one manual per user. > ---------- (92) #2 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (10:50). 3 lines. I took the signature forms in to the bank, and they said everything is fine with them. I'll test out whether we can really accept a check made out to "Grex" at the end of the month. ---------- (92) #3 Marcus D. Watts (mdw) Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (22:10). 1 line. Is "grex" a registered DBA of ours? ---------- (92) #4 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (23:53). 1 line. Yes, we have a "Certificate of Assumed Name" for "Grex" filed with the State. ---------- (92) #5 Valerie Mates (valerie) Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (09:08). 1 line. Thanks Mark for dealing with the bank stuff on this. ---------- (92) #6 Marcus D. Watts (mdw) Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (19:33). 5 lines. I can't see any raeson why they would have a problem with such a check, provided we have proof we "own" that name. After all, if grex were a person, it could just sign the check over to cyberspace communcations, inc. (It might make sense to bring a copy of the certificate, just in case...) ---------- (92) #7 Steve Gibbard (scg) Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (22:01). 2 lines. There was a long story at the board meeting about problems the bank had with our DBA. ---------- (92) #8 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (02:05). 3 lines. Well, I tried to cash a check made out to "Grex" a while back, and they wouldn't take it. Showing them that we own the name was, indeed, what was required, but we also needed to submit a new signature form. ---------- (92) #9 TS Taylor (tsty) Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (07:17). 2 lines. cash? or deposit? po ---------- (92) #10 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (13:09). 2 lines. Deposit. Well, I tried it today, and it did indeed work - the bank has the name "Grex" in their computer, so we can now accept checks made out thereto. ---------- (92) #11 Valerie Mates (valerie) Thu, May 1, 1997 (09:08). 1 line. Cool! ---------- (92) #12 David Cahill (dpc) Thu, May 1, 1997 (16:01). 6 lines. How much did we take in in April, Mark? Did we have a burst of last- minute contributions that caused a big increase over the $36? I hope? Glad to see you got our first monthly M-Net on-line newsletter, Valerie! Kaylene Thaler (kaylene), the new chair of our Marketing and Public Relations Committee, wrote it. I flyspecked it and caught typos. (Everyone has a talent.) ---------- (92) #13 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Thu, May 1, 1997 (21:15). 2 lines. We took in $108 in April. The worst month on record for quite a while, I think. ---------- (92) #14 David Cahill (dpc) Fri, May 2, 1997 (14:17). 1 line. Gross. ---------- (92) #15 Steven R. Weiss (srw) Sat, May 3, 1997 (00:10). 1 line. Yeah, the net must have been way negative. ---------- (92) #16 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Sat, May 3, 1997 (13:07). 3 lines. We spent about $560 this month, so our net will be about $-450. I'll post the treasurer's report in a few days, when I get the bank statement and know what the service charge is this month. ---------- (92) #17 Kevin Albaugh (albaugh) Sun, May 4, 1997 (20:40). 2 lines. And just to stir up trouble :-) was any of the low income due to previous members deliberately not re-upping, for whatever reason it might have been? ---------- (92) #18 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Sun, May 4, 1997 (23:39). 3 lines. Yes, quite a lot of it. We're down to 91 members, 85 of whom are paid through at least May 15th. Last month at this time we were at 100 members, 89 of whom were paid up. ---------- (92) #19 Kevin Albaugh (albaugh) Mon, May 5, 1997 (13:04). 3 lines. Then several comments come to mind... But that would simply lead to the same issue(s) being rehashed yet again for no benefit. I at least hope folks will keep this whole series of events in mind for future reference... ---------- (92) #20 Rane Curl (rcurl) Mon, May 5, 1997 (13:39). 6 lines. I would expect natural fluctuations in membership due to differences in numbers of memberships coming due in different months, etc. The "drop" could mean nothing - or something. You know, of course, how many memberships will come due when, so can expect ups and downs - you just don't know the renewals. Have you plotted all this out for the future to see if a fluctuation is meaningful, or not? ---------- (92) #21 Mary Remmers (mary) Mon, May 5, 1997 (18:17). 13 lines. If our priority, what we all looking to do above all else is to have oodles of paying members then we are indeed going about it in the wrong way. We should be offering service for the money, lots of perks, and keeping the folks who don't send money from feeling like they belong here. If instead we are looking to promote an open access community (in the widest sense) where folks give because they believe in the concept, and that is our priority and goal, well, we'll need to be patient as those who are unwilling to hang in there move out and we slowly find folks who believe in Grex. ---------- (92) #22 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Mon, May 5, 1997 (23:24). 3 lines. Re #20: Rane, I am unsure how to tell if the current drop is significant or not. Can you suggest a way to tell that, statistically? I would appreciate some help with that. ---------- (92) #23 Steve Gibbard (scg) Tue, May 6, 1997 (01:17). 5 lines. re 21: Having lots of money certainly isn't our goal, but we do need some amount of money to keep the system running. Yes, people should give because they believe in the concept, but if all Grex is is a nice concept that people consider too slow to be usable then we've got a problem. ---------- (92) #24 Rane Curl (rcurl) Tue, May 6, 1997 (02:17). 6 lines. Mark, do you have the figures for the number of members at the same date of each month, and the number of members lapsing that month? Hmmm...even better would be records of all the membership terms and the start or lapse date. Then we start playing with those numbers.... (I'll wait to think of *how* to play for indicating that the numbers are available). ---------- (92) #25 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Tue, May 6, 1997 (05:05). 2 lines. I don't have all those numbers readily available, I'm afraid, but I can generate them with a little bit of work. ---------- (92) #26 velvet crow (font) Tue, May 6, 1997 (18:24). 10 lines. Re #23: Though I am only *one* fairwitness, I can say that we already are loosing people because of the slow system. (that's not even counting people who pay) My conference has nearly been abandoned, and from what I have heard, some of the clasic responders have left because of grex's slowness. (eg. brenner, humdog, etc) They have fled to the river, and only come back when the river is down. I have also talked to people who might other wise be interested in the system who didn't bother staying because of the slowness. Though I realise that the staffers are doing their utmost to make the system as good as possible, I just thought I'd point this out. ---------- (92) #27 David Cahill (dpc) Tue, May 6, 1997 (19:33). 6 lines. From similar experiences on M-Net, I think that when revenue drops into the toilet it is due to at least one of two things: (1) System problems (M-Net used to have a *lot* of down time and crashes; Grex has a glacially slow system); (2) political conflict. Users hate conflict most of all; it drives them away in droves. ---------- (92) #28 Klaus (n8nxf) Wed, May 7, 1997 (07:53). 9 lines. It is a simple balance situation. The balance is between the speed of the system and what the majority of users will tolerate. What the user will tolerate depends on how valuable it is to the user. Folks who *like* what is going on here will stick around longer and weather more changes. People leaving is not a bad thing, as long as they are not the type of people that make Grex what it is. The River is not for everyone, M-Net is not for everyone and neither is Grex. However, each system has its own personality and each attracts a supporting group of people. That, in my book, is good as I don't believe in monocultures. ---------- (92) #29 John H. Remmers (remmers) Wed, May 7, 1997 (08:43). 24 lines. I don't know if it's appropriate to mention individual names publicly, but knowing some general characteristics of the non-renewers might shed light. For example, did a significant number of them read coop? If not, political conflict is probably not a factor, since coop is the only place where political conflict tends to be visible. Or were a significant number of them college students? April is the last month of the semester at lots of colleges. Perhaps they didn't renew because they won't have access. Or perhaps the recent dropoff is a statistical blip. Only time will tell. Re #26: It's my impression that brenner, humdog, et al from the beginning viewed Grex as mainly a way-station until The River was set up. So even if Grex were volcanically fast instead of glacially slow, they might not spend all that much time here. I think the general point about Grex's slowness being a turnoff is valid. More and more people are getting connected to the internet, access lots of sites, have more to compare Grex to, and their expectations are rising. ---------- (92) #30 Mary Jannausch (tao) Wed, May 7, 1997 (10:20). 4 lines. re 13: It's small consolation, I suppose, but you will be getting a new member this month: me. I plan to send in two months' worth of membership funds. ---------- (92) #31 Mary Jannausch (tao) Wed, May 7, 1997 (10:23). 4 lines. Addendum to 30: I forgot to add that my reason for doing so is in line with Mary's comments in resp. 21. I'd hat to see Grex become a pay-for-service bbs. ---------- (92) #32 John H. Remmers (remmers) Wed, May 7, 1997 (13:43). 1 line. Neat! Thanks for the support. ---------- (92) #33 Mark A. Conger (aruba) Wed, May 7, 1997 (18:10). 1 line. Thanks Mary. I'll see what I can come up with as far as statistics, John. ---------- (92) #34 TS Taylor (tsty) Thu, May 8, 1997 (00:21). 1 line. thankxx tao. ---------- (92) #35 Valerie Mates (valerie) Thu, May 8, 1997 (08:25). 1 line. Thanks Mary (tao) ! ---------- (92) #36 Kevin Albaugh (albaugh) Fri, May 9, 1997 (14:15). 2 lines. Yeah, and you might be patient about no one manning the pumps while the ship takes on water and sinks, too. ---------- (92) #37 Misti Tucker (mta) Sat, May 10, 1997 (17:30). 1 line. Change always frightens people. Even good change. ---------- (92) #38 STeve Andre' (steve) Thu, May 22, 1997 (11:39). 11 lines. I think it bears remembering that Grex has always had an uneven cash inflow. There have been months where we've gotten a lot, and slumps that haven't looked so good. But overall, we've done OK, and thats what is important to me. Mary's comments are exactly right as I see it. We do have to get the 670 up however, becuase that will help us out, and I'm sure there are people who dropped out because of the slowness. However, overall, I think Grex is in better shape now overall than before--we're slow, compared to the 'new' stuff out there on peoples desks, but we're still faster than previous versions of Grex's hardware.